#1
I've been away for what I just came to realize has been 5 years. I'm not much for the slams that come w forums, the blind behind-the-monitor vitriol BS. I really just like talking about our team with other fans. Have done so since the old JSO in 1995, with a 14.4 dial up modem.... Since 69 was one of my crew back then.

Anyhow, I'm glad I popped in, glad to see this forum is still rockin', and I have to say, this looks to have been one hell of a draft, and a freakishly good FA period. I cannot recall, ever, ever, such a massive talent dump as Gutey has thrown our way this offseason. Just remarkable the speed, talent, instincts, reliability, credence, ascension and football smarts that he has added to our roster. Pretty damn good.

I love what Gutey has been throwing down, and I seriously cannot wait to get up there to watch a practice and see the goods. If I do make some practices, I'll let you know what I saw, good or bad.

Hope all of you are doing well, and I wish you my best.

p2w
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#2
Holy hell, glad to have ya back!
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#3
Seriously, good to see you around Z. This oughta be fun, this season. I am stoked for what I think will happen: a very fast start with GB's defensive improvements and offensive. Really, stellar work by Gutekunst. We now have both competent and super talented players with speed added nearly everywhere throughout this roster. All of a sudden, Green Bay is a very deep team.

Have to wait and see, but, I think this team will surprise. Many.

Thanks Bud!

BTW, check out these film studies from Jackson Krueger Sports. You'll dig:

Rashan Gary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v😛A7jqCKV_CI 

Preston Smith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QlmgxS4Wo8 

Adrian Amos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uCMh6JpWoI 

Za'😉arius Smith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BfKTYqRRgY 

Kind of cool to see what these players brought previously to their respective teams. Nothing abstract there.

Add Savage and Keke to that mix as well, Hollman, Summers ... these are all talented players along the board, R1-R7, plus, Nijman, Boltin, Ramsey, Shepherd as UDFAs.... I think those 4 have the best chance to make it. Serious talent added.

The dudes did not do one of those film breakdowns for Darnell Savage, but, he was the only player I really wanted out of this draft, at least my top favorite to help our team. THE one player I wanted us to add.
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#4
Glad to here from you P2W!

If I remember right you used to give everyone great breakdowns of the open practices when you attended.

Hope you get the chance this year, plenty of new and young returning talent that needs evaluating!


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#5
You too bud. bucks, I loved it. Haven't been in a few years, but going to pop back up this TC to see what we got. So happy to have a more progressive HC and system here. Rodgers is going to crush this, as will the rest of this team.

Seriously, we've NEVER seen this amount of quality football talent added to our team. Not that I can recall.

Also, great hearing from you buckeye!

Kind of a funny thing. We've all busted this shit for years, all the pundit/expert stuff, but, looking at these guys in real gametime situations, and how they were effective in their roles, makes visualizing what they could do on this team so much easier. I hope you find those analyses as positively as I do. They are comprehensive and enlightening. A picture tells a thousand stories, don't it?
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#6
Play2Win,

I believe I joined after you took an hiatus, but if this thread is any indication of your contributions, I am very happy you re-engaged.
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#7
You know when I saw play2win had posted I assumed that someone hacked his account 😨
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#8
Ha! Mucky. Really, it is good to slam ideas back and forth with my fellow fans here.

As for this offseason, wow. I'm totally amazed at how Brian Gutekunst and his staff have completely transformed this Packers team in just two years... and I don't think they are done. I would not be surprised to see another FA addition or two once rosters begin to get hacked.

Going into the draft, I was thinking our primary weakness overall on this team was OL depth. As many of you friends know, I'm a F'ing geek about the personnel side of the NFL and the Packers. I take in as much info as I can from the confines of a keyboard like most of my brothers here, and try to couple that stuff with what I actually see. Honestly, we've got extreme talent added to this team, all up and down through every pick, R1-R7. I mean, like I've never quite seen before. Add to that, the raw VALUE they received with each selection. Just remarkable to me. You friends know I study the F outta this sh!t. Well, if you don't mind, let me share some thoughts:

Gary freaked me out at #12 in a bad, bad way. I was completely deflated, but also by nothing but my own error in not having watched him as a legit possibility there. My views on him have completely flipped after watching every Michigan game available on the interwebs, not just highlights. I wanted to see what they saw in him to make him such an important and vital selection there at 12. Well, this dude is going to be a F'ing marauder. My biggest mistake was taking the draft "experts" consensus views, by most all but a handful, that Gary was not a team player, didn't have a consistent motor, didn't love the game, had an attitude problem, was severely injured.... did not have production through his 3 years... blah, blah, blah. We all read the stuff, and I fell hook line and sinker, immediately ignoring the man. My bad. Gary is none of those things. None. In fact, quite the opposite from what I was able to glean watching his film. This dude had at least 80% of opposition plays being run away from him, in EVERY game I watched. He was double, triple, quadrupled an average of more than 55% of the time. And, this is from EVERY team he faced. Also, Gary played with amazing power, balance, speed, instinct and drive. Didn't realize how many times he was able to manhandle his OT, yet, every play by the opponent was evasive, went the opposite direction of where he was lined up. No one is going to light up the stat pile with that happening. Teams that took Bush and Winovich might have their anus pucker working mid season. Gary is the real deal, was Michigan's #1 player, and no one is going to be able to give him the same treatment as Michigan's opponents did. I believe Gary is going to get his production numbers in a GB uniform, and they might really surprise.

Savage, he was the ONLY player I wanted. I'm not even going to say anything on him, as it is really not necessary. You'll see. The only comment I'll share, is I believe him to be a Nick Collins clone, but not the rookie Nick Collins, rather the Nick Collins with 3-4 years of NFL experience. We'll see.... I should say one more thing, "THANK YOU, Brian Gutekunst! Awesome trade to secure the best Safety for your team."

Ha! The OL. We landed another TRUE steal at #44 with Elgton Jenkins, who was ranked by PFF as their #1 overall C in the draft. Allowed just 5 pressures on 369 pass blocking snaps last season, and just 19 pressures over 3 years with ZERO sacks. (* I don't carry PFF's water, but they are good in evaluations of ability in my eyes). Jenkins was #26 on their Top 250 Big Board, and Savage was #29 (*also should note, Savage was their #1 overall DB in the draft). At 6-4.5 315, this player has the strength, ability and football smarts to jump right in immediately as a starting OG. Great pick.

#75 R3, Jace Sternberger. Another steal for GB. At 6-4 252, he has nearly identical size to Hock, who went #8 overall, has the TOP rated hands of any TE in his draft class, and has vastly better YAC than Fant. Great value pick there. Again. Donning Jordy's old 87, I somehow think this kid is going to enjoy being a target for Rodgers and vv. I never got the Hock/Fant hype, but, I like that we somehow snagged Jace in the third round. Great, precise route runner who is quick into his breaks. I think Rodgers will love this kid as a go-to. Not an ideal in line blocker, but a great blocker in space, and he CATCHES the F'ing ROCK.

At #150 in R5 Gutey again lands another super high value pick with Kingsley Keke. At 6-3 288, Keke will fit right into Pettine's versatility wheel, and I do believe this kid could start, if not for the mass of talent in front of him. He can play the 1, the 3 and the 5 tech on our DL, and after studying his game films like I did with the Gary selection, my biggest takeaway was, "We just drafted a young Santan Dotson!" No sh!t. We're gonna love this kid. Exceptional depth for our DL. Please, have some fun watching his tape.

#185, Ka'😉ar Hollman, 6-0 196. Another 4.3 burner CB, one I knew ZERO about. I'm just going to have to trust Gutey and his staff on this, as there is virtually nothing in terms of film to evaluate. Gutey has earned his street cred as far as I am concerned. I am glad they bolstered the CB position though.

#194 Dexter Williams, 5-11 212. He's a freaky RB. Most of his TD runs at ND he went untouched... what does that mean? He's got a tremendous feel for the hole, and vision for the running lanes. Dexter has an innate ability to draw defenders in at the line, change his trajectory, and hit the gas. Talk about "Run To Daylight!" That's Dexter, and I think we will have fun seeing him play with a vastly upgraded line in LaFleur's scheme. While he doesn't have a great 40, he does have uncanny acceleration. He also has the patience to allow the blocks develop and then make his cut and go. He's not elusive. Not a tackle breaker. But crafty as F. I think he will be a very, very pleasant addition to our RB depth, and this dude will break a ton of runs for scores if given the opportunity.

#226 R7 Ty Summers, 6-1 241. If you really want to see a steal, look at this kid's film, and compare his stats to the 2 ILBs who were drafted ahead of Gary at #12. Unbelievable. Talk about VALUE. He had more tackles than either of Devin Bush or White, and is far superior in coverage. Did you hear that? It is no joke. The guy is super instinctive, a phenomenal tackler, and he's 6-1 compared to both of the Devs who are 5-11. He's got a motor too. NON-STOP. Heady player, one who would be a perfect complement either to Martinez or Burks at ILB. Ty Summers' SPARQ of 9..71 puts him in the "ELITE" category along with Rashan Gary 9.95, the only two Packers draftees to hit that elite status.

Fair to Decent draft... Ha! WOW.

Back to the OL depth, and what I considered a top area of weakness prior to the draft. Add Yosh Nijman to our pile of riches as what I believe to be our TOP UDFA, and GET THE HELL OUTTA TOWN! Ho-ly crap! How did Brian Gutekunst land this piece of pure gold as a UDFA? Seriously. 6-7 324 34"arms, insanely heavy 10" hands. He has an 81.7" wingspan...!!!! Arguably the best measureables of any OT in his draft class. This man is powerful. All he needs is more NFL level coaching on his footwork and hand placement. Yosh is going to be a phenomenal addition to this Packers team, and I guarantee he makes our 53 man roster.

Yosh didn't run the 40 at the Combine, as he wanted more time to prepare for the drill on his Pro Day in front of scouts, where he ran a 4.81, which would have placed him at #1 in the OL class. His 114" broad jump tied for #5 overall, his 4.51 20 yd shuttle as well as his 8.07 in the 3 cone were tied for #2 overall, and had 27 reps on the bench. 30.5 vertical. There is a vid of him benching 415 floating around somewhere...

A 3 year starter, 22 at LT 10 RT, Nijman's experience is in the ACC, playing for Virginia Tech, Power 5 Conference, in 2018 he had 639 pass sets, allowing just 12 pressures and 1 sack. Previous 3 years he had 1844 pass blocking snaps with similar results. Nijman is a perfect developmental OT for us, with both LT and RT experience. Take one look at how he did blocking Clelin Ferrell when they played Clemson, and you will be able to see. He faced 4 ACC 1st Round picks at DL in his time at VT putting up those numbers, amongst many others. He STONED Brian Burns as well. TOTAL STEAL.

People might wonder, "Why wasn't he drafted?" 1. He played on a bad Hokies team. 2. He had metal rods inserted in his legs when he was younger because he grew too fast to support his weight. That certainly has not affected his abilities, as his SPARQ placed him at #6 amongst the entire OL draft class, falling just short of that "elite" status, into the "very good" status along with Savage, Hollman and Williams. though his RAS of 9.8 placed him in the "elite" class. The SPARQ (speed, power, agility, reaction, quickness) and RAS (relative athletic score: ratings are ranked based on the skills required for each position) ratings are very similar, nearly mirroring each other.

I'm certainly enthusiastic, and not ignorant to the negatives, but I keep an awareness of them all as best as I can. Personally, I just don't dwell on the negatives. Every player has their weaknesses, but, I have to say, we added a F ton of talent this offseason, and we have a lot to be excited about. Slow time of year, thought you guys might dig another perspective, and... holy hell, I got work to do! Happy Saturday! Bing.
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#9
Agreed, I look at Gary as a team player all the way. Unselfishly consumed blockers so Bush and Winovich could get home. Had him listed among my targets, but I liked Montez better, pending medical eval. Love the pick tho. Pettine doesn't want those diva edge guys. He prefers unselfish guys like this.

As for Ty Summers, I agree on him too. Question on him is injury history. Can he hold up? Banged up too much on the lower level. Get some duct tape on this dude. Will need a year to develop like Martinez and Burks, but I agree, he's got the potential to shine.
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#10
play2win, nice to see your enthusiasm hasn't diminished. Here's my take on the team following the draft from another thread:

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra

  • I'm completely divided on the Gary pick. One minute I'm worried about his shoulder and lack of refinement, then I watch a clip and fall in love with his speed and athleticism. Regardless, Gutey wouldn't have drafted him if Pettine didn't think he could do something with him and that's enough for me at the moment.
  • While it came at a high cost, I absolutely love Savage as a future starting FS. Dude plays like a heat seeking missile. With a steady vet like Amos alongside him, I think the bumps in the road with this guy will be minimized
  • Was hoping we could grab one of the OTs that fell out of the first round at #44, but I like Jenkins in the middle with the ability to play G or C if Linsley gets hurt.
  • Sternberger looks like the seam busting threat we haven't had since Finley went down against the Browns in 2013. Him and Graham should be able to be big bodied targets in the red zone if LaFleurs scheme works as advertised. And that's probably all he'll be doing this year given how rookie TEs work.
  • Keke looks like a real intriguing piece. Surprisingly athletic and quick given his build.
  • Was happy with the drafting of Hollman as I wanted a day 3 pick for depth at CB. Another burner in the secondary and will contribute on ST if he makes the cut in training camp.
  • Williams might be the best value pick in this draft class. Looks like a guy who can immediately plug a role (#2 R😎. Also happy with this pick as a I wanted a day 3 pick for depth at RB.
  • Summers looks like the typical 7th rounder: good camp fodder and will be a ST guy if he makes the team

    In general & misc:
  • Gutey is clearly getting guys that Pettine wants
  • Gutey is also big on speed and athleticism
  • With the additions of Savage, Hollman and Amos on top of King, Alexander and Jones, we have some real speed in our secondary and they don't look afraid to hit. No more Haha's, Peprahs or MacMillians here. That said, some of them are on the small side and durability might be an issue
  • I still stand by my assessment that this D-Line could be a monster  this year.
  • Montravius Adams might be in trouble, esp if Mo Wilkerson is brought back (supposedly offered a one year deal that's pending on a physical)
  • Not looking good for McCray, Taylor and Spriggs either . Personally, I think there's going to be a blood-letting of Thompsons guys at the end of training camp
  • I'm officially dubbing Za'😉arius Smith and Preston Smith as Z-Smith and P-Smith. Also, I'm dubbing Jamaal Williams and Dexter Williams as J-Williams and D-Williams (or J-Will and D-Will for short).
  • Sternberger, Keke and D-Will are One Year Wonders of sorts. Sternberger from transferring, Keke from switching positions and D-Will from only playing one year.
  • While I like St. Brown and MVS, I admit I'm worried about the WR position. Outside of Adams, there's no real proven commodity.
  • Speaking of thin positions, there's the ILB spot. It's somewhat mitigated with sub packages and using Jones in the box but it remains an eye sore.
  • I think the RB group will be a darkhorse on offense this year. Aaron Jones and D-Will look like a nice 1-2 combo and will allow J-Will to settle in as a nuts and bolts/little big of everything guy.
  • Outside of trading up for Savage, Gutey seemed to get the guys he wanted at the spots where we drafted. #steelyeyedassassin
  • Did you know that Savage is a Savage Jr? Meaning there's a Savage Senior?! Sounds like a guy who eats meat uncooked and is tougher that a coffin nail.
  • The Packers subreddit on reddit is trying to dub our secondary as the Legion of Zoom. I can get behind this idea.
  • Does Keke love us ?
  • With our current depth at ILB, it almost makes me wish we had AJ Hawk back. Almost.



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#11
Hey Mucky,

Seriously, we will have ZERO to worry about with Ty Summers at ILB, who can flat out play, and he's got the smarts and anticipation to play ILB. He is awesome in coverage, even in the slot, where he helped to hold Hakeem Butler to just 2 rec for 14 yds when Texas Tech played Iowa St., Butler's lowest totals of any game in 2018. He's a former QB who understands route concepts and how to bait a QB.

While filling in at EDGE for another injured TCU player in week 1 of last season, Summers earned the best EDGE grade in the Big 12 by PFF at 87.4

Southern University HC, Dawson Odums, said after the game he thought Summers is one of the better players in the country... “We’re not talking about this ballgame. I am talking about in the country – NFL, college, high school – he is one of the best." (Quote from Fort Worth Star-Telegram)

#5 overall Devin White 5-11 238 4.42 stats: 286 tackles, 114 Solo, 28.5 TFL, 8.5 sacks, 1 INT, 9 PD, 4 FF, 3 FR

#10 overall Devin Bush 5-11 240 4.43 stats: 172 tackles, 91 Solo, 18.5 TFL, 10 sacks, 1 INT, 11 PD, 0 FF, 0 FR

#226 overall Ty Summers 6-2 241 4.51 stats: 317 tackles, 167 Solo, 22.5 TFL, 10.5 sacks, 2 INT, 9 PD, 1 FF, 1 FR

Talk about a VALUE pick in R7... I mean, Devin Bush... with Gary clearing a sh!t ton of the garbage out of the way for him to make plays? You might be surprised to see Ty Summers play. The guy is as much of a demon at ILB as either of Bush or White, and he's got size added to speed & instincts. I think we will be much better there, my friend. Been also hearing a lot of raves on Oren Burks. Martinez was talking him up on a recent podcast. Check it out on The Athletic.

As for the rest, I think our WR group will be a strength of this team. Gutey added more value to that position group last season, and I can see them take off this year under MLF. This is probably the year they become "proven." Plus, last season was a complete shambles, making it tough for any rookie and compounding the horror. Despite all of that, we saw some flashes of real talent, size and speed there. I do like UDFA Darrius Shepherd, and think he has a chance to make this 53. This group may turn out to be one of the funnest to watch in terms of development. A real commitment to the run is REALLY going to open up everything for Aaron Rodgers and this WR group. I believe this will be like a night & day flip.

Montravius Adams, from what I've heard is coming along nicely and is our #2 NT. He was a solid player at Auburn. Totally agree with you on Ted Thompson holdovers on OL. We've since added superior depth and guys will be fighting like crazy for spots. I totally agree with you on our DL as well. That looks to have turned nicely. Dexter added to Jamaal and Aaron makes our RB depth ROCK SOLID. I cannot wait to see a true return to running the ROCK, especially with what I think will be a vastly improved OL, and a better scheme and commitment under MLF.
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